Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 6GR
Welding Forum > UKWelder > Practical Welding Questions
Uncle D
Could anyone tell me if it's AWS or ASME that does the 6GR?...I seem to remember it was AWS and people always thought it was ASME, any thoughts?
Technic Al
Actually its both
The ASME ASTM AWS etc etc are the same specs with a different prefix. That is if there is a published document.
Guest_Andy
Hi Uncle D,

sorry Technic Al but this is not the case. The 6GR test is taken from the AWS (American Welding Society) D.1.1 structural steel welding code specification, in particular the welder qualification section and is intended to emulate structural T,K,Y joint scenarios. The ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) Boiler and Pressure vessel code in particular section 9 deals with, as the name suggests, boiler and pressure vessel work (this includes associated pipe work) and does not require any joint configuration emulating the AWS D.1.1 6GR welder qualification test. The ASTM (American Society for Testing and Matrials) primarily deals with standards i.e. steel chemical composition, methods for mechanical testing of weldments.

Hope info is helpfull.
Technic Al
Andy
I always thought that the welding position designations (3G,5G,6GRetc etc) are ASME and adopted by AWS. Are you saying that 6GR is only mentioned in AWS specs?
Guest_Andy
Hi Technic Al,
The ASME Boiler and Pressure vessel code in particular section 9 makes no mention of the 6GR joint configuration as detailed in AWS D.1.1. Both specifications are intended for different applications as detailed in my other posting. I have access to both publications and reference both frequently so am quite sure my original statements are correct (as per details contained in both specifications). ASME and AWS use the 5G, 6G, 2G designations for pipe/tubular positions but only AWS detail the 6GR joint configuration.
Andy.
Uncle D
So is my first assumption correct and ASME don't have a 6GR? Can someone clear this up?
Itzme
Technic Al & Uncle D
Andy is correct.
When qualifying welders, or welding procedures, you have to refer to the code of construction Viz: For boilers and Pressure vessels ASME V111 or ASME 1, Piping ASME B31.3, Structural AWS D1.1
These construction codes refer you to welder qualification which is generally ASME 1X.
ASME 1X does not have a 6GR only 6g, and AWS D1.1 requires testing for welding of tubulars with limited access as can be found on offshore rigs, even though these are pipe, they are structural and not pressure retaining so therfore not covered by ASME 1, V111 or B31.3
So to put it in a nutshell , there is no ASME 1X 6GR.
AWS D 1.1 will accept welders qualified to ASME 1X unless restricted, then you will have to do a 6GR test which can be on pipe or plate.
Regards
Itzme
Technic Al
You learn something new every day
Itzme
You are right Technip Al.
After 30 years i am still learning everyday, and everyone should be encouraged to ask questions to get the answers, even though the answers are mostly a persons own opinions, sometimes supported by fact
Regards
Itzme
Rootfillandcap
Ive done quite a few asme 1X 6gr tests for the fab yards in Scotland and Holland and they have been asme
BCK 49
Just to change the thread here no talk of codings or proceedures.Having just successfully completed a 6GR test for stick root/flux core 10".The welding did not present to much difficulty compared to the use of the grinder!Because of the constiction ring you must turn the wheel against the rotation ,causing a high risk of kickback because you are totally blinded by the sparks flying into your face!What exactly does this prove.1The welder knows how to weld.2 the welder knows how to use a grinder.In these so called safety enlightened days this type of weld test needs a thorough risk assessment.Basicly a 6GR makes you break every rule in the book.

Uncle D
The whole point of the restriction ring is to prevent the use of a grinder,If you're welding a large dia. heavy walled bracer on a jacket you'd (a) Be lucky to have a grinder or (b)You'd never get into the butt to grind until you were well filled out.

Uncle D.
BCK 49
Sorry UncleD Ithought you were a welder, but this is obviously not the case , once again we have someone talking the talk but has not walked the walk.Any welder UK or International who has completed a 6GR with no grinder please post or go straight to welders heaven!
roger rough cap
well said bck 49, can uncle d tell me how do you get rid of the donkeys heads without a grinder!!
10062014
although every time that i have done a 6gr i have used a grinder and on some heavy , heavy wall bracers etc even a pencil grinder. i can imagine that if you have a remote you could give it a nice hot start therefore you wouldn't need a grinder (as much) especially if it's only getting a ut as all it needs is for you to catch both edges and for the weld to be clean and the root to be flush or above. only my opinion lads so don't jump down my throat ok. nice to see you posting again BCK 49 how's the offshore life ?
Uncle D
QUOTE (BCK 49 @ Jul 11 2004, 02:00 AM)
Sorry UncleD Ithought you were a welder, but this is obviously not the case , once again we have someone talking the talk but has not walked the walk.Any welder UK or International who has completed a 6GR with no grinder please post or go straight to welders heaven!

First of all BCK 49 why the nasty, sarcastic reply? I merely said that sometimes you donít always have access to a grinder, not that you should never use one! Obviously if you do have a grinder and can get into the butt, use it! In reply to roger rough cap if youíre having difficulties and again have no grinder, or the problem is deep in the butt the only way to get rid of it is by Air-Arc.

Captain
I've always considered the 6GR test as a grinding test.
Agree with BCK49, the way you have to configure the grinder on the test piece means a face full of sparks & grit.
Uncle D, if you're not supposed to use a grinder, how do you "feather-back" your stops & starts?
tonyp
A question coming from a neutral because I have never done the 6GR test and wouldn't know what it was if it hit me in the face. Firstly can you enlighten me on what the 6GR test actually is? Secondly, whats with the grinder? What size grinder is used? I use grinders in the aerospace industry to prep work clean black spots off titanium etc but this is only a pencil grinder, is it a pencil grinder which you boys use or is it a great big grinder.
Captain
TonyP,
the 6GR test is a pipe test, usually 6" or 8" done in the 6G position (45 degrees).
The "R" bit refers to the restriction plate that is tacked onto the top of the two test pieces (or coupons) about an inch from the butt.
This restriction plate is a circular ring and is usually 2" wide.
The butt set-up is different to a normal test whereby one coupon has a 37 degree bevel with a landing edge of about 2mm on it, the other coupon's prep is square.The square prep coupon is usually a thicker wall thickness, about 5 or 6mm (sch 80 onto sch 120)
The square prep coupon goes on the top along with the restriction plate, and the bevelled coupon goes on the bottom.Usual parameters allow you to have a 3 to 5 mm gap. The root is put in with a low-hydrogen rod, E7016 for example, 2.5mm on d.c.negative or a/c.
The use of the grinder, usually a 5" with a cutting disc, comes into play when you have to grind back & feather the root, and in general removing any slag traps that may happen.
A marvellous testing of the welder's ability to grind with sparks in your face and getting covered in dust.
roger rough cap
QUOTE (Uncle D @ Jul 13 2004, 12:03 AM)
[QUOTE=BCK 49,Jul 11 2004, 02:00 AM] In reply to roger rough cap if youíre having difficulties and again have no grinder, or the problem is deep in the butt the only way to get rid of it is by Air-Arc.

the donkeys heads i get, the arc air would be of no use, i'd need a hand grenade to blow them off!!
BCK 49
UncleD sorry you were offendend by my straight talking but if this type of topic is not dicussed openly then things will not progress.As far as the welder at the pointy is concerned , the 6GR test is still dreaded by any welder walking into a test centre even more so if he is paying for it out of his own pocket.Plus the added pressure if he is actively seeking employment and has family and commitments.Welding in my experience has a lot to do with confidence in your own ability which a spell of unemployment can seriously undermine.My original post was on the safety aspect of this type of testing which is openly accepted as a nescessary evil.WHY?
A small comparison here .If every HGV driver had to resit there driving test every time they went to a new employer there would Hell on!Especially if they had one hand tied behind their back HGVR.
tonyp
a few questions.
1) how much is the test?
2) where can test be done?
3) do you get any guidance before test?
4) where would this test take you as regards jobs & wages?
good penetration
i am involved in the fabrication of oil & gas rigs, i just checked my certs and sure enough 6G is ASME 1X but the 6GR is in fact AWS.

there sure is more to this game that meets the eye isnt there.

regards good penetration
Itzme
Thanks good penetration
Thats what some of us have been saying all along.
Uncle D now has his answer
Regards
Itzme
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2021 Invision Power Services, Inc.