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Blue ark
A'reet lads
could any one of you tell me the cost of an asme 9 6g? ive been qouted 2300.00 for 10 days training & test,im paying privately with no help,seems alittle expensive.........
Harweld
Hi blue arc,

have you thought of using your local college?

I know this is offered at quite a number of then so I would enquire there first. It is a lot cheaper than what you have been quoted.

Harry
Blue ark
cheers harweld,
unfortunately this is through my local college(south tyneside twi)hence the posting.im currently in work so therefore im not entiteld to any funding!Looks like im going to have to cough up.......
roddie
mm!
obviously a geordie lad, or there abouts.
you guys usually get everything for nowt anyway! jarra an that!
seriously, try babbies, they are as cheap as you get. 2,300 havin a laff. tell em to cut 2,000 off it.
To quote an old saying, you can take monkeys out the jungle, but just because you pay a lot of money doesn't make you a welder.
Takes miles of rods and years of drinking and misbehavin to make you a proper welder.
bulldog
blue ark i am doing asme 9 6g tig root stick fill and caat wulfrun college
wolverhampton cost 230 quid 18 nights 2.5 hours
and 130 quid for test piece use this as aguide to prices mate.
Test my Mettle
2,300 ???? unless I am very much mistaken the same college (south tyneside) were looking for unemployed (6mnths+, advertised in local paper) welders to put through their codings.
Are we therefore to assume that the college get 2,300 for every drunken layabout they can get their hands on, we've all spent time being "in between jobs", but who can afford to spend 6 months on the dole? and anyway I think I'd be sectioned under the mental health act after one month, and hang on a minute is there a big boom somewhere on tyneside I haven't heard about that warrants the government forking out for these codings
Here we have a lad who wants to get himself coded up and is prepared to fork out money to achieve this and as usual the fact that he is EMPLOYED works against him - COME ON WHAT THE F*>< is going on here !?!?
Blue ark forget about the codings your best bet is to go on the smack, marry a 16 year old with 5 kids and start shoplifting.

Anyway apart from that good luck
aspy65
all depends how much training u need m8, you could go to neta stockton-on-tees pay bout 100 for 1 day getting your hand back in and then 250 for the asme ix test!

good luck
Blue ark
thanks aspy65!
have you got the No. for neta stockton-on-tees,i'll see what they qoute me...fingers crossed.
weldreader
QUOTE (Blue ark @ Oct 31 2005, 12:28 PM)
thanks aspy65!
have you got the No. for neta stockton-on-tees,i'll see what they qoute me...fingers crossed.

Blueark

Contact details of Neta Stockton on Tees and link to their website.

NETA STOCKTON
Pennine Avenue
North Tees Industrial Estate
Portrack Lane
Stockton-on-Tees
TS18 2RJ
Tel: (01642) 616936
Fax: (01642) 612431


http://www.neta.co.uk/contact/contact.php?loc=contact

Good luck

WR
gazweld
just like to say why do you want to pay to weld? if you have been welding for so long they should pay you to do the test. they are really taking the (beep) the robbing ba-----ds. and they do . ive never paid for a test in my life and never will. why is it now more than ever there is a shortage of welders ? it does not even guarantee a job at the end of it if you do want to pay,

DONT FAIL.

REGARDS GAZWELD
Flash!
gazweld

Do you have a 6G certificate? . . . or is it a copy which isn't worth the paper its wrote on in most welding circles!

Perhaps Blue ark is just trying to get his own certificate to further his employment.
Redneck
Flash,
If you are working for an employer who has a qualified ASME IX procedure and you then sit a welder qualification test you are issued with a welder qualification certificate.This is generally only valid whilst working for that employer, that means it is not transferable.
The originals of these certificates are usually held by the employer for entry into QA documentation. If you are on good terms with the employer when you leave you will usually get a copy of the cert but they are under no legal obligation to give you one.
However a copy of the certificate (and all the others you accumulate) can be used to show a prospective employer that you have passed the test/s before and this will help in getting your "foot in the door".
Things may be done differently in Britain but I work with ASME IX daily and I have never heard of being able to walk in off the street, sit a weld test and then walk out with an ASME IX welder qualification certificate.
We have colleges here in Australia that run government authorised training schools for pipewelders but they issue a ticket (AS 1796) instead of a certificate and this belongs to the welder . However this again is only of use to get a "foot in the door"because every site you work on has a site specific welder qual test,
Regards,
Redneck
rodofgod


Hi All!

Whilst no means an expert in any of the 'codes' mentioned. Many British Agencies will insist on copies of previous welding quals, valid or not. This is a day to day occurrence in the UK! Something to do with ASME allowing the first weldment to act as a test piece, I think!

Regards


Redneck
Rodofgod,
ASME IX Section QW 304.1 allows 150 mm of the first production weld to be used as welder qualification. This can be great for saving time and money but it can also be very risky unless you have full confidence in the ability of the welder. A lot of companies will have it written in their specifications that production welds are not allowed for welder qualification even though the code allows it.
Regards,
Redneck
Flash!
Redneck

The point I'm making is if you, a prospective client, wants someone to weld a joint for him and needs proof of qualification, a copy of the original, whoever holds it, is not always accepted.

Forgeries are rife, and with modern PC/printing methods, along with a little skill from the 'forger', these 'authentic' document(s) are produced.

I have seen forged 'original' certificates and they are very, very good and would fool even a trained eye.
The only way to check these out is to make phone calls to the relevant parties involved with the paperwork.

In the UK, anyone who is prepared to pay for a test, and subsequently passes the test is entitled to that qual. And why not. He/she has just undergone the test and paid for it!
It is there bread and butter ticket.
metal_manipulator
My only real gripe is the price that compnies are charging for an ASME9 qualification,..come on 1,500.00+....it was maybe at the most, in a high tech, state of the art enviornment 250.00 dollars, maybe up to 500.00 dollars, very reasonable considering the great pay. At 13.00 an hour I could never afford to get tested here having a family and all that stuff.
Redneck
Flash,
I agree with you about the forgeries, have seen some beauties over the years.
What I am trying to explain is concerning the original posting which mentioned an ASME IX certificate.
As I mentioned earlier in order to obtain an ASME IX welder qualification you must perform a weld test using a qualified WPS.That welder qualification is only valid when working for that employer as he is the owner of that WPS. If you go to work for another employer and he is doing work that requires ASME IX welders then you will have to qualify to his weld procedures.
ASME IX QW 301.2 Qualification Tests states:
"Each manufacturer or contractor shall qualify each welder or welding operator for each welding process to be used in production welding.The performance qualification test shall be welded in accordance with qualified Welding Procedure Specifications....."

If I am the client (say an oil refinery) and I require some pipework welded to B31.3 I will ask you as the contractor to provide me with copies of your ASME IX weld procedures and welder qualifications.Generally I will require your welders to do a site weld test to your weld procedures or mine prior to work starting.
If you have welders in your employment who have been qualified to your procedures before (and are still current)then their qualifications may be accepted without further testing.
Basically, what I am trying to say is that if you have sat a test before, keep a copy of the welder qual (or even better the radiographic report) and this will hopefully get you "a foot in the door " for your next job.

I tend to agree with gazweld, if Britain is screaming out for pipewelders why are you guys having to pay for welder qualifications ?.
Regards,
Redneck
rodofgod


Hi All!

Thanks for the reply Redneck, knew it was in there somewhere, however don't have ASME at home!!

From what I've found and heard about alot of agencies, if you can show that you've worked to ASME standards by way of having a copy or original cert,whether in date or not, then most agencies will take you on and use Section QW 304.1 to qualify you!

I agree this is a high risk practice and I, would not personally like to employ a welder by this method unless I knew him/her, but it does happen on an everyday occurrence.

The reason British welders are having to pay for their own quals, I think is because of our Employment laws!

Many jobs are for a few weeks only, this makes it uneconomical for an employer to take a load of welders on and pay 1000+ for each test for each welder for 5 or 6 weeks work! (not including rejects!). Much easier to use some agency to supply the work force and to pay a small premium for the labour on hours worked! This also saves holiday pay, sickness pay, redundancy etc. Therefore, for the average British welder who choses to work for these agencies, to have a chance of employment, then they must have proof of previous or current quals.

This situation is made worse by many agencies who go as far as to charge any welders for travel to jobs, accommodation and any PPE equipment! Not all but quite a few!

Sad facts of Life in the UK!


Regards





Redneck
Rodofgod,
A fews years back in New Zealand I ran into a couple of contract pipewelders who had a novel way of staying ahead of the field.
When doing welder quals for a constuction site job you were usually only paid workshop rates while you were doing your tests and until the radiography results had come back, then you went onto the much higher site rate. If the job was only for a few weeks the sooner you could pass the test the sooner you were into the big bucks.
What they did was qualify a basic ASME IX WPS (GTAW/MMAW) themselves and then qualified themselves to that procedure. They would walk straight in the gate, show the welding inspector their weld procedure and current welder quals and in most (not all) cases were off welding while the rest of the guys were still testing out in the workshop, sometimes for a day or two.It cost them a bit to set up but it was definitely well worth it in the long run.
Now you have got the SWPS ( Standard Welding Procedure Specifications) which are pre-qualified and don't require mechanical tests.All they require are visual and radiographic testing prior to use. If you are a small outfit this is great, all you do is have someone write you up a WPS, weld the coupon, have it tested and you have got a qualified weld procedure and a current welder qual all for the price of one.
Regards,
Redneck
mark the arc
cant sleep redneck?

regards

MARK
Redneck
Afternoon Mark,
Would you believe that I am sitting at work in Australia getting paid for chatting to people half way around the world,
Regards,
Redneck
Redneck
Rodofgod,
Just found an excellent article on this topic.
It is by Walter Sperko and he has been on the ASME IX committee for years. It deals with the differences between American and British/European codes for welder qualification and also the intent to form one code to cover welding worldwide.
Go to http://www.sperkoengineering.com and click on "Thoughts on International Welder Qualification Standards"
Regards,
Redneck
nanjing2
Cant open it, anybody else got the same problem?
Redneck
Nanjing,
Sorry, It is not a link, I just typed the address onto my posting.
Regards,
Redneck
rodofgod


Hi All!

Redneck,nanjing, I'm able to open it! It's a .PDF file, have you got Adobe installed on your comp nanjing?

Intresting stuff!

Regards
Engloid
Paying for it yourself will be useless....

An AME certification must be held and mantained by your employer. It does NOT travel with you from job to job.

For example, if I'm working at A, a plant that tested me and holds my certification...

and company B wants me to do some side work for them, my AME certification does not apply to work done by B.

Also, when I leave (quit, fired, laid off) from A, my certification expires.

Therefore, if you pay for the certification yourself, you will probably have a piece of paper that proves you did it, but it will not be effective on any job you go to. Each employer must retest you anyway.

If the employer needs the certification, it is their responsibility to either administer the test, or send you to a place that will. The test MUST be given for the purpose of gaining the certification for a specific company.
nanjing2
QUOTE (Engloid @ Nov 18 2005, 02:28 AM)
Paying for it yourself will be useless....

An AME certification must be held and mantained by your employer. It does NOT travel with you from job to job.

For example, if I'm working at A, a plant that tested me and holds my certification...

and company B wants me to do some side work for them, my AME certification does not apply to work done by B.

Also, when I leave (quit, fired, laid off) from A, my certification expires.

Therefore, if you pay for the certification yourself, you will probably have a piece of paper that proves you did it, but it will not be effective on any job you go to. Each employer must retest you anyway.

If the employer needs the certification, it is their responsibility to either administer the test, or send you to a place that will. The test MUST be given for the purpose of gaining the certification for a specific company.

Dont know which country u live in Engloid but there are plenty guys with there own ASME certs working all over the UK.
Engloid
Interesting...since here in the US, it's not that way.

ASME = AMERICAN Society of Mechanical Engineers. If you're correct, then I guess there's something drastically wrong, since all the CWI training I went through also agrees with me. As far as I know, they don't have a different set of rules in the UK.

You can have a copy of your ASME certifications, carry them around with you, show them to prospective employers.... but you are supposed to be certified through your employer to be working on ASME coded pressure vessels.

It's like a drivers license. I may have one in my pocket that expired 5 years ago, and people may believe I have the ability to drive and hire me based on the assumption that I am capable of getting a current one...but I am supposed to get a valid one before driving a car.
nanjing2
If pass ur test and drive a taxi why would u have to take a test again to drive for another taxi company. People either believe your licence is genuine or if they dont they can always check up!
aunty spatter
all this talk of having your own certs and or paying for them is a load of b*****ks
its just another money making scam for insurance companies, my advice to anyone thinking of paying for tests is to really think hard about which road as a welder you want to go down, if you pay for your own tests then you should really be looking at having your own ltd company and being self employed thro' them, that way your certs are always valid for work done by you for that (your own co ) company and in a lot of instances a site test or production butt will suffice, on the other hand if you are working on contract work, shutdowns etc then all reputable companies will test you out anyway so you don't need your own certs, and once you get on the merry go round and make good contacts then its 80 per cent word of mouth and recommendations, me personally i would never pay for a test on principle, if someone wants me to work and earn money for them then it is down to them to stump up for tests, in the circles i move in i dont know anyone who has their own certs only copies of tests they have done for other employers, so i would say to any decent welders dont worry to much about having your own certs its no big deal, it is CONTACTS you want,

cheers AS
rodofgod


Hi All!


Engloid,

I think the point of having your own certs, is that you can work as a "sub-contractor" for companies!

As aunty spatter points out, if you work for someone as a ltd company and the certs you hold meet all the essential variables of the required welding then subject to acceptance by the client, they would be valid. Many agencies in the UK will recruit welders on this 'Ltd' basis. Many companies accept this practice! Not ideal, but thats the way things work over here!

I take it that this is not common over in the US?

Regards






nanjing2
Bottom line, an agency will take you on if you have your own certs. and the fabrication company will also accept them, why? because it saves them money, they dont have to put out any money for a test.
superweld
it sickens me to see agencies and companies asking welders to provide their own certificates...i can understand companies asking for indentures or proof of academic qualifications but not welding certs...let's face it, a welding certificate is simply an insurance policy...it would be like a company hiring a van driver and asking the driver to supply his own insurance policy for the company van...but this will only continue if welders continue to cave in to the demands of greedy agencies and companies...we need tamf1 back to them what they can do with their demands
rodofgod


Hi All!

It is indeed bad 'crack' for welders to have to provide their own certs, especially when 9 times out of ten, these certs are probably not relevant or applicable to the job!

I must admit that I've never had to pay for my 'own' certs and never would, so I'm not sure how it all works, never worked for an agency either! I do understand the basics of it all, however, how do these companies get the final 'sign off' from the inspecting authorities/Client by using agency welders with there own certs? If I was responsible for signing off, I'd want to see these certs and make sure they were right for the job and valid!

But I'm just a Welder!



Regards






nanjing2
Before a welder starts work he must hand over his original certificates to the company he is going to weld for. This company shows them to the client and the Inspection Authority (who is often the company that has issued the certificates). If everything is in order then the welder can start work. Anything wrong with this? No more messing around with meaningless re-tests.
Redneck
Guys,
I agree with Engloid in what he is saying.
ASME IX 2001 QW 300.2
"These paragraphs require that each (note each)manufacturer or contractor shall be responsible for conducting tests to qualify the performance of welders and welding operators in accordance with qualified Welding Procedure Specifications, which his organization (note his organization, not some other company) employs in the construction of weldments built in accordance with the Code.
The purpose of this requirement is to ensure that the manufacturer or contractor has determind that his welders and welding operators using his procedures (note his procedures) are capable of developing the minimum requirements specified for an acceptable weldment. This responsibility cannot be delegated to another organization.
The welders or welding operators used to produce such weldments shall be tested under the full supervision and control of the manufacturer, contractor, assembler or installer during the production of these test weldments.(They cannot achieve this if their tests were done elsewhere)
It is not permissible for the manufacturer, contractor, assembler, or installer to have the welding performed by another organization.

It may be acceptable to various companies/agencies in the UK what is reportedly being done but it does not comply with ASME IX - End of story !!!
Regards,
Redneck
chris rob
end of the day do you rate youreself as a welder if you have to pay fr these tests
nanjing2
QUOTE (Redneck @ Nov 21 2005, 01:26 AM)

It may be acceptable to various companies/agencies in the UK what is reportedly being done but it does not comply with ASME IX - End of story !!!
Regards,
Redneck

Not rally the case.

Most of the welding guys here, qualified to ASME IX, weld process pipework which comes under ASME B31.3. This code, which takes prescedence over ASME IX does allow welding procedures and welders qualified from other companies to be used for the work. Redneck have a look at sections 328.2.2 and 328.2.3 it explains how it works.
ASBO IX
hi nanjing,
I have copies of ASME IX & EN 287 welder test certs from a company i used to work for. They all had a stamp on them saying UNCONTROLLED DOCUMENT on them would I have been able to use them within six months of them being resighned by an inspector?
Seems nowadays you need to have your own certs to pick alot of work up. Rarley have I had the opportunity to test for a job. Agencys nearly always seem to ask if you have current certs. I suppose the only option is to fork out thousands of pounds re-testing and hope that work comes up doing what youve tested in. It definatley makes it hard for a welder to get on in the trade.
nanjing2
ASBO, most companies, especially the bigger companies, wont touch photocopies (uncontrolled copies is concerning cotrol of documents, nothing really to do with welding). If the company u were working for is going out of business or whatever see if they will give you the originals and a covering letter saying that they have given them to you. U can then take them to whoever witnessed the tests (classification society) and pay around forty pounds per cert. to get them transferred into your own name (then its up to u to keep them up to date!) The big rig yards in Scotland allowed this when they closed the doors (MCD's and KOG). I helped loads of guys out to get their certs transferred, no point to me re-testing if youve just come off a job and have being doing it for years, just a wate of time and money.
ASBO IX
If you have test certs in your own name do you need a WPS as well?

nanjing2
QUOTE (ASBO IX @ Nov 22 2005, 01:39 PM)
If you have test certs in your own name do you need a WPS as well?

No
Redneck
Nanjing,
I am aware of those clauses, basically it falls on the inspector to decide if the welders certs are acceptable.
It may be acceptable to use certs qualified by someone else but is it ethical ?.
Say for example you and I own two fabrication shops and we are in direct competition for welding some pipework for a nearby refinery.
You pay thousands of pounds to qualify 20 welders to work for you.
I offer the welders another pound per hour to come and work for me.
The inspector accepts the fact that they are qualified (they may not even need a piece of paper because he may be the same inspector that qualified them in the first place.)
You are thousands of pounds out of pocket and I have picked up 20 qualified welders for free.
Is that ethical? No! Is anyone to blame? No!
It is basically what the regulatory authorities will accept and it appears that the UK is not as stringent as elsewhere in the world.

"Before a welder starts work he must hand over his original certificates to the company he is going to weld for. This company shows them to the client and the Inspection Authority (who is often the company that has issued the certificates). If everything is in order then the welder can start work. Anything wrong with this? No more messing around with meaningless re-tests".

During my career as a pipewelder in New Zealand I worked short term contract work and I would have had over 100 different employers. Every one of those employers required me to do a pipe test even though I had a huge stack of certs and radiographic reports from previous jobs.(the majority of this work was B31.3)
You may say they were "meaningless re-tests " but it was basically a New Zealand wide requirement and it was all factored in to the costings. The clients reviewed all procedures and quals prior to tender acceptance so every company had factored the cost of qualification into their quotes.
When I became an Inspector I worked for SGS and was based in a town of approx 100,000 people.I would sometimes spend 5 days a week witnessing welder qualifications in various engineering shops and even though this may seem over the top it was a countrywide requirement.A lot of the work was on small fuel depots (tank farms etc) and the major oil companies (Shell, Mobil, Caltex, BP) all required third pary inspection of qualification testing prior to work commencing.

Clause 328.2.3 might be OK for the isolated instance but to try and use it across the board would be a nightmare.You have 100 welders rock up to a site with 100 different welder quals qualified using 100 different Weld Procedures. (surely the essential variables couldn't all be the same) No thank you!
As you are well aware ASME IX is the qualification code for a number of construction/fabrication codes (B31.1, B31.3, API 650, ASME I, ASME VIII etc) and without checking them all I am not aware if they have similar clauses to 328.2.3 but I still stand by original statement that it does not comply with ASME IX.

I think we should agree to disagree on this one, there is obviously different statutory requirements in different parts of the world,
Regards,
Redneck
nanjing2
Grasping at straws with this one i think Redneck! If you were aware of B31.3 allowing this why no mention? Ethics? come on, who are u kidding! Dont know about NZ but every place I've been there is no problem with this. Also visited HMSO on-line cant find an SI about welders tests! Nobody has disputed, if i remember correctly, what ASME IX states by the way, certainly not me.

PS the town in NZ with a population of 100,000, were they all welders or is there some other significant point about the population? (Also i'd keep quiet about working for S*S!)
jonti
Imagine that?
A town full of 100 000 welders.
Does'nt bear thinking about.
Redneck
Nanjing,
As I said there is no point continuing this discussion as things are obviously done differently in different parts of the world. I have only ever mentioned how things are done in Australia and New Zealand where we use ASME all day everyday.If you look back through these postings it is not just me that is querying the way things are done in the UK but Americans as well, you would think they would know how to interpret the ASME code.
The point of mentioning 100,000 people was that that size population would be considered a small town/city anywhere in the world and I was trying to show that with that small a population I was still working 5 days a week witnessing welder qualifications.
I have worked on oil & gas jobs where I am the only inspector and I am looking after from between 5 and 50 welders.
I have also worked on jobs where there is 20 inspectors and over 400 welders.
In 26 years in the welding industry I have never heard of clause 328.2.3 being used and I doubt I ever will.
All welders are required to perform a welder qualification test prior to starting work be it a 2 day shutdown or a 2 year project.
Regards,
Redneck
nanjing2
Looks like its only Australia and NZ have a problem with this! I've never had a problem any country I've worked in and no one from the company I work for has had a problem and it is an American company.

It must be really difficult for you in Australia, going on a two day shut down and having to test the welders, Job will be finished before u get the test results!
weldreader
Don't know about everyone else but I think this topic's been exhausted now. Move on !!


WR
Blue ark
aye ya right welds!!
T'was me who started the topic & ive been well informed.Cheers lads,subject closed......
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