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> Lead welding
gregyboy
post Mar 18 2007, 12:44 PM
Joined: 6-Feb 07



Anyone done this, and what technique is used?
asmeIX6G
post Mar 18 2007, 01:36 PM
Joined: 8-Jul 06



hi gregyboy would it not just be like soldering? using and iron and that or maybe oxy acet?
Poacher Turned G...
post Mar 18 2007, 01:37 PM
Joined: 15-Nov 05



Otherwise known as Lead Burning

Done using oxy-acetylene with a special nozzle. Lead is scraped before welding and it is usual to slice a piece off and use it as filler.

When done properly the weld looks similar to a good aluminium TIG weld but the usual things cause problems - cleanliness in particular.

Very easy to goof it up - leave it to those who can - generally a plumbers job.

Regards
CraftyWelder
post Mar 18 2007, 01:51 PM
Joined: 5-Jul 06



Hows Holland ASMEIX????
3Rs
post Mar 18 2007, 02:09 PM
Joined: 25-Aug 03



The game keeper is correct in his statement.

This is a plumbers trade, But very threw plumber will know how to properly weld lead, There are firms that deal with leadburning,lead dressing and, Welding part of the lead is hard enough as the pocher has said you require special nozzles i beleve nozzles numbers are from 1-3 but the design is different from that used on normal oxy-acetylene nozzles.

The working pressure is different as well, but the technical end of welding is the same, using the same method of welding as if you where tig welding.

Points of safety:-

if you are moving to slow the lead will flash in front of you (thats molten lead) which does burn your skin unlike molten metal steel! So you need to be wearing the following equipment.

Full Face shield
full head cover (hat)
rigger gloves

Or in short if you feel that you can not do the job call in a somebody who can,
Dont forget its different from welding any other type,grade,model of steel and alu.

And above all be very careful (I dont want to be seeing on the welding news welder dies of molten lead burns))
nigel 42
post Mar 18 2007, 06:51 PM
Joined: 1-Mar 05



gregyboy

also be carefull with the lead fumes
lead poisoning is not pleasant
and can lead to dementia

as has been saaid you need to be very dextrous and fast with the torch
and can be done with a oxy propane torch
kind regards nigel 42

This post has been edited by nigel 42: Mar 18 2007, 06:53 PM
gregyboy
post Mar 18 2007, 07:02 PM
Joined: 6-Feb 07



Think its to late Nigel, my kids reckon I'm demented, except when i'm giving them money, then, I think I'm demented, thanks for the advice and kind regards to yourself Gregyboy
weldingartisan
post Mar 18 2007, 09:23 PM
Joined: 22-Sep 06



This is a welding forum and you discuss lead burning as if it were a black art! Special nozzles - no they are not special, lead burning requires less heat so smaller kit is used. As for full body armour (3R's) I've never seen a lead burner even wear goggles, and I've worked with some of the best - not cavalier cowboys.
I have knocked up a few lead slates etc. myself with O/A but not much good with TIG maybe the heat is too concentrated?
Subsea
post Mar 18 2007, 10:14 PM
Joined: 18-Nov 03



Havta agree with WA, different kit is required, kinda like a torch that a jeweller would use, with nozzles to suit. All the other info eg: cleaniness, low gas pressures ect is spot on. Plumbers use our O&A area for practical work, cant say I ever saw them wearing any special kit either, also had a wee go myself, if one can weld for example, TIG and O&A it is a dawdle, so is brocco burning too, I was reflecting on past experiences and, forgot to mention other elements that are produced when using Brocco.....sorry i digress, the latter has nothing to do with "lead burning" but at least I have had the pleasure to use said kit underwater........succesfully......(3R's?)

S.
3Rs
post Mar 20 2007, 12:16 AM
Joined: 25-Aug 03



Well looks like i have to defend my self here!

Being that i served my time in the Heating and ventlation trade. I had the pleasure (if thats the correct word) be in the company of apprentice plumbers (copper men). Part of there training was lead burning/dressing.
Now while they where being trained up on the said process/job. They where infact wearing protective equipment, (tell me who likes getting a face full of molten lead?)

In fact such an accident did happen with one of the apprentices, And if he had not being wearing his face sheild then he would have been scared for life.

Yes you would be correct that there is no need for the "So called health and safety equipment" if your on site,
Tell me would you not wear a welding helmet if you where welding, (I think not) like everything its part of the health and safety requirement, If the guy who out on a roof doing the lead burning has a "back fire" whats going to happen? Hes going to be stuck on a roof with no way of getting down while suffering 1st degree burns in the face. Why you may ask your self? well because he was not wearing the apporate health and safety equipment for the job.

So for this reason this is why you may be wanting to be covered head to foot in health and safety gear.

Tell me now have i gone over board, Or board you to death?
I surly hope i haven't but enlightened you to the benefits of wearing "health and safety equipment"

Oh and before i leave the subject, (this is not a rant,bee in a bonnet,rage of the machine) but in fact the way i see it, If you have been given the safety gear then its you whos responsible for wearing it. Not the employer, hes already kept is end of the bargain by supplying it.


Oh whats the saying again?

Take a horse to the troff but you cant make it drink the water.

Subsea
post Mar 20 2007, 05:47 PM
Joined: 18-Nov 03



Hi 3R's, I was not claiming H&S was being breached, in fact it is mandatory where I work, what I am stating, when I have had a go at lead burning I never had the stuff blasting in my face or other body parts, nor have I witnessed any injuries, serious or not from molten lead blasting up in the air! With special torch and nozzles, combined with very low working pressures, if a burn through occurs, that is all it is, burn through, kinda similar to TIG, one can see his feet.

Maybe things are done differently in shipyards, has me pondering what uses there for such materials on vessels?

Anyways enough said, wrap well up in Don land, as it's baltic doon in the central belt BRRrrrrrrrrr.

S
asmeIX6G
post Mar 24 2007, 10:53 AM
Joined: 8-Jul 06



Hi CRAFTY WELDER, Holland oh dear, put it this way im home in the UK again now!
the agency had me over telling me its all S/S tig work with a small amount of fab, got there n no stainless at all and it was like being the apprentice again i was cutting and drilling n cleaning thats bout it!
and get this! i was supposed to be on 18 euros an hour net when i got there they said well its 15 now because your just drilling and cutting and things. i was like well find me something to weld or fabricate then! also the digs were ment to be 100euros a week got there and found out it was 180!!!!
so friday morning i packed me stuff up and did one!
laugh.gif
dazzle
post Mar 24 2007, 12:49 PM
Joined: 2-Jan 07



Hey Asme iv6g

Sorry it didnt work out for you, but atleast you had the balls to go & have a crack at it.

Chin up kid, there'll be plenty of other jobs to go for. You were better off jacking than staying there to be shafted.

Dont let 'em grind you down.
Thatcher
post Dec 20 2008, 11:01 AM
Joined: 20-Dec 08



Having suffered overcharging by plumbers, to supplement my roofing trade, I decided to take up lead welding/burning some 40 years ago.
Guess this will not have chenged!!

It is possible to lead weld with a fine pencil torch using propane or lighter gas type torches; however oxy/acet is much easier and more presentable.

I would endorse the H&S comments, lead slatters easily on the hands also. I have known some operatives wear sunglasses whilst welding, but my own eyes seem to tolerate conditions perfectly.

Nowt like learning in a classroom - and then trying the same job out in the wind and rain!!!!!!
Remember what teachers usually are - better at teaching! dry.gif :
boilermaker
post Dec 20 2008, 10:33 PM
Joined: 3-Jul 07



GREG
Thousands of fluid tight/gas tight Lead joints were welded in all sizes of pipe, all over the country by tradesmen known as Chemical Plumbers. I have also seen the same tradesmen welding Silver linings in Cider vats (one for chunko!) and glass reforming towers on pharmacutical plants. Most of these lads served their time for companies such as ICI, Dupont or RTZ. Plastics have replaced a lot of "exotic" materials for acid vats etc and some of the skills have died with them. Amen
Respect.
teacher
post Dec 28 2008, 09:27 AM
Joined: 28-Dec 08



i belive in the plumbing trade it is not called welding but marrying
leadman
post Jan 9 2009, 06:43 PM
Joined: 9-Jan 09



Just come across the posts regarding Lead welding.
I served my time as a Chemical plumber at Ciba Geigy in manchester . we used lead every day to line vessels, make pipwork , fume srubbers etc . casting and coating metal parts with lead. The lead sheet was generally 13mm thick ,the term used was leadburning. we used hydrogen/oxygen with nozzels formed
from tube.
At that time in the early 70,s no PPE was used , we had a visual lead check every friday (looking for blue colouring in inner eyelid ,ears ,gums, urine test weekly.)
I then became a plumber using the skills to due lead flashings ,lead roofing. I was one of the few that had learnt to weld overhead, its very ,very tricky as the single drop of lead that falls cannot be replaced as a lap is used and the molten lead moved upside down . Very rare these days I imagine.
These days I teach lead welding /burning privately using oxy/acetelene ,a model O torch ,nozzles 1-6
Its not difficult to weld horizontally , takes 30 mins to learn technique then practice to improve and perfect
amout of penetration, correct width and amount of bead. It takes a lot of practice to weld in situ outside in
windy conditions.
But most work can be fabricated on a bench and then fitted.
Regarding PPE ,safety glasses to prevent molten lead going into the eyes, the pool is very small so its not a lot of lead. overalls to prevent lead being taken home , safety boots , wash hands after contact with lead and before smoking or eating and drinking. Thats all thats required in Colleges at the moment . ( I,ve taught in several.
Its not difficult to do, bit of patience and practice.
pala
post Mar 29 2009, 07:55 PM
Joined: 29-Mar 09



hi leadman

could you contact me

steve
wannabewelder
post May 13 2009, 10:04 PM
Joined: 13-May 09



Hello to all i need some advice here i wont go on but my question is this,i had a nightmare trying to weld the other day as the lead i was joining wasnt playing the game,i tried different heats but the lead wasnt melting to a pool properly it was a right baffling mess in the end,could this be down to bad lead?.
The flame was hot enough and consistent but the lead just wasnt melting right at all,any advice. sad.gif
Im not totally new to this as i am starting module 2 on my leadwork City&guilds course soon and came across this problem whilst practicing in my garden at home
ken
post Oct 11 2009, 07:59 PM
Joined: 11-Oct 09



Could be because the lead has too much other metals in it.
probably too much zinc
LEADMAN did you know that lead burning was never a plumbers trade or a roofers
although its mostly done by roofers working with sheet lead now.
Its origins are in the chemical industry. the first lead burning was done on acid tanks
in the late 1800s.
Its real term is not welding or burning but Autogeous soldering.
been doing it on roofs for 39 years now
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