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> C.E. Markings
MetalMart
post Feb 8 2017, 10:24 PM
Joined: 8-Feb 17



Hi,

I am trying to acquire some information regarding C.E. Marking, the company I work for does small structural steel work and has recently set up C.E. procedures in the works, but sometimes the work I am given is not properly calculated. I have complete faith in my abilities and have been coded to the standard required, but at the end of the day if a structure fails because of bad design can I get prosecuted? (i.e. for negligence, because I knowingly worked on a job I knew wasn't properly calculated). I have searched all over the net for an answer to what happens, who is held accountable?
andye611
post Feb 9 2017, 08:54 AM
Joined: 18-Aug 16



Hi,
I'm no expert on the subject, but it seems logical that is there was a failure caused by poor design, the designer would be held accountable. As a welder, you follow the design you are given... on the other hand, if you have concerns with the calculations/design the responsible thing to do is try to discuss these with the designer / project lead and hope they either listen or can prove their design/calcs.
Technic Al
post Feb 9 2017, 09:33 AM
Joined: 14-Oct 03



No you cant be individually responsible. The onus is on the Firm whose name is on the Certificate.

I would think about the consequences before airing your concerns. Some people would welcome comment but an lot wont and may take offence. There are lots of people in positions of authority who dont really know what theyre doing and as a consequence they lash out if questioned.

Cant say Im very good at it myself but keeping quiet is the safe option
jrlewis
post Feb 9 2017, 03:29 PM
Joined: 16-Nov 16



Hi
I also work for a structural steel company and I am project manager, I fully understand where you are coming from but if anything did happen you would not be liable it would be the director of the company. We also do some jobs without a full set of structural calculations but we have been given a table from Ridba which tells you what steel sizes to use on what size buildings etc... but that can also change due to where the building is located.
We also often do extensions on existing buildings and if it is a small agricultural building we tend not to get a set of structural calcs as normally the farmer is to tight to pay for them and we normally just copy what steel size is already there. So the main answer to your question i believe is no you are not a structural engineer it is not your job to come up with the correct steel sizes etc.. all you are doing is following the plans.

Joe
MetalMart
post Feb 10 2017, 02:41 PM
Joined: 8-Feb 17



Thanks everyone for the responses,

On a few occasions with smaller jobs I work on, the drawing I have been given is little more than notes made from site measurements and are illegible to work from, in which case I am working blind with a verbal description from a supervisor and nothing to really show for a design at all, I can honestly say I am not overly happy working like this and might even look else where for employment. In these circumstances I still have to complete C.E. documentation. I have made some attempts to converse with management about my concerns, who do not share my point of view and lets just say it has had a detrimental effect on my character.
lacka fusion
post Feb 10 2017, 03:49 PM
Joined: 22-Jan 10



google -- corporate manslaughter
gillburt
post Mar 3 2017, 01:34 PM
Joined: 3-Mar 17



a lot depends upon the contract that your organisation has entered into

if it is "design and build" then there is potentially scope for arguing that your company might need to come up with the calcs, but presumably someone higher up the food chain is paid to deal with that.

if it's "build only" then you make what's in front of you.

Unfortunately, too many people pay for the latter and expect the former.



apprentice
post Apr 4 2017, 12:44 PM
Joined: 20-Feb 10



I would not even be remotely interested. An employer assumes "vicarious liability" for the actions of their employees. It is all down to your employer, nothing in the least to do with you...

BUT, if on the other hand, you are one of them numpties that colludes with pretending to be self employed..... then, you are in big (beep).....

john..

This post has been edited by apprentice: Apr 4 2017, 12:44 PM
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